Tony Gilroy Reveals 'Andor' Finale Secrets & Future Plans

WARNING: This narrative contains plot details from the “Star Wars” series “Andor” and the movie “Rogue One,” which are now available on Disney+. Proceed with caution if you wish to avoid spoilers!

Since its beginning, “Andor” was crafted by creator Tony Gilroy (“Michael Clayton,” the “Bourne” series) to trace the journey of rebel spy Cassian Andor (Diego Luna), leading up to the events seen in the 2016 “Star Wars” film “Rogue One.” In that movie, Cassian discovers an Imperial officer, Galen Erso (Mads Mikkelsen), has secretly communicated about a highly classified weapon – the Death Star – to his daughter, Jyn (Felicity Jones). Connecting all the story threads from “Andor” into the intricate plot of the movie caused Gilroy concern for years. However, as it turns out, he had no reason to worry. “It went down smoothly,” he tells EbMaster with a smile. “It unfolded without the significant struggle that was expected.

In the lead-up to the events of “Rogue One,” the last three episodes unfold. In Episode 10, titled “Make It Stop,” Luthen Rael (Stellan Skarsgård), a ruthless Rebellion strategist, discovers about the Death Star and Galen Erso through his spy in the Empire. He informs his assistant Kleya (Elizabeth Dulau) and hurries to destroy a radio linking them to the Rebel network. Just as he does this, Dedra Meero (Denise Gough), an Imperial Security Bureau officer who’s been chasing Luthen throughout the series, shows up at his doorstep to arrest him. When Luthen tries to take his own life, Dedra rushes him to a hospital to save him, which leads Kleya to infiltrate the hospital and turn off Luthen’s life support to prevent the Empire from extracting information about the Rebellion. The episode features flashbacks directed by Alonso Ruizpalacios and written by Tom Bissell, showing how Luthen found Kleya as a child and raised her like his own daughter, and their journey in building up the resistance against the Empire together.

In the upcoming episode titled “Who Else Knows?”, the story centers on Cassian’s mission to rescue Kleya from Coruscant, as the Empire frantically hunts for her. The search focuses on a rundown hideout where she’s hiding. This operation ends in the last episode, “Jedha, Kyber, Erso.” Following this, Cassian hands over Kleya’s intel about the Death Star to a doubtful Alliance Council, led by Bail Organa (Benjamin Bratt) and Mon Mothma (Genevieve O’Reilly). As they ponder, Cassian retreats to his home on the rebel base on Yavin and shares memories with fellow spy Vel Martha (Faye Marsay) about their previous missions and lost comrades, including Luthen. Eventually, the Council gives Cassian permission to delve deeper into Galen Erso’s case. He then walks through the base, past soldiers who later feature in “Rogue One,” before entering his spaceship with K-2S0 (Alan Tudyk) and taking off.

In simpler terms, the ending of “Rogue One” is bittersweet because Cassian and Jyn, who weren’t romantically involved, both sacrifice themselves to deliver the Death Star plans to the Rebellion. In a detailed interview with EbMaster about the last episodes of “Andor”, Gilroy explains why he chose to end the series with a scene revealing that Cassian’s companion Bix (played by Adria Arjona) has had their child since she left Cassian in Episode 9, believing his path was with the Rebellion. He also discussed a part of Episode 10 that caused controversy, his plans for future “Star Wars” storytelling, and his aspirations for his next film as a writer-director, which will star another “Star Wars” actor, Oscar Isaac.

The primary objective of the final episodes is knitting the show together with “Rogue One,” but was there anything else that you were hoping to accomplish with them?

Episode 10 stands out as a unique entity, serving as a special temple. It’s intriguing to consider how audiences will respond to it. However, Episodes 11 and 12, where we truly embark on our journey, were more than I anticipated. As we unraveled the cause and effect of events, the betrayals, secrets, and the path to Galen Erso, everything fell into place surprisingly smoothly. This made our work easier than expected. The aim for Episode 12 was to immerse ourselves in the passage of time with the characters that matter, and there are quite a few left. When we approached mixing Episode 12, we were all unexpectedly moved, as we hadn’t foreseen. After following these characters through their ordeals, it was a powerful experience. I hope viewers will feel the immense weight of what they’ve been through in Episode 12, truly appreciating the epic journey they’ve been on.

I was a little surprised by how low-key Episode 12 felt after the opening sequence. It wasn’t what you usually expect for a finale.

12-hour drives didn’t faze me; there was a distinct vibe about it. I recall having a conversation with Tom Bissell, who handled the initial drafts. It felt like he was saying, “Don’t force this, let’s just ensure it’s coherent. Then, allow the camera and the actors to do their magic.” We didn’t want to rush it; instead, we wanted to give it space to breathe and develop organically.

Why didn’t you?

Essentially, it’s not dull or slow; they aren’t idly knitting. Instead, it’s the perfect moment for a toast. The interaction between Vel and Cassian is priceless to me. Typically, I prefer keeping the pace fast throughout. We usually strive to move quickly all the time. However, I didn’t want that high-speed feeling in Episode 12.

The last shot of the series is Bix holding Cassian’s infant child, which I found to be a deeply moving, hopeful image. When did that idea first arise?

It’s likely sooner than you might expect, though I can’t pinpoint the exact moment. However, I can assure you that “Rogue” is quite bleak, as I experienced it firsthand. The series asks viewers to endure a significant amount of sorrow throughout its narrative. Yet, despite its grimness, I could never conceive of a scenario where there wasn’t a glimmer of hope. It may sound cliché or like something you’d find on a motivational T-shirt, but there must be something hopeful, some light in the darkness. So, I always kept that notion close at hand. I’m not certain when I first articulated this, whether it was during negotiations for more funding or otherwise. What I am sure of is that it was a tactic I employed.

Why would that be a card that you would play?

The rights to it are held by Disney, not me. If I require an additional filming day, it could potentially catch someone’s attention, prompting them to think, “Perhaps it’s worth arranging an extra shooting day for this project, considering the benefits we stand to gain.

So you were cracking the door for a continuing story with that shot?

The reasoning behind Bix leaving Cassian in 9 is complex. It wasn’t driven by selfish motives or a desire for personal gain. Instead, it was an act of hope, something that ultimately benefited me even though it wasn’t intended to do so. To put it simply, I would have made the same decision regardless. This revelation clarifies why Bix chose to leave Cassian at such a critical moment and emphasizes the fact that she was pregnant while carrying out her actions. In other words, this explanation provides a subtle insight into the complexities of destiny and the choices people make when they feel like they’re living with someone who has a preordained role in life.

In the captivating world of “Rogue,” I can’t help but feel a profound sense of awe for his selfless act. The thought of a family he’d never know, the chances he’d never seize, and all that comes with it, amplifies the poignant sorrow of his sacrifice.

Additionally, it provides me with a glimmer of optimism in the end. It essentially opens up a pathway, as you put it. This isn’t just a gateway to an amusement park. It’s a gateway that offers the audience a genuine emotional experience and a sense of empathetic resolution.

It’s also an open door to the possibility of another “Star Wars” story about Cassian’s child and Bix as an older woman.

Yeah. That’s obviously — you could do that. I could do that.

Is that a door that you would want to walk through?

Indeed, it’s not what I intended this time around. To be clear, my usual response is “Never say never again.” However, in this particular instance, I believe I have fulfilled my responsibilities as required. This is simply my sentiment for today.

As you alluded to, there are so many other characters who we leave with a feeling of possibility like Vel, Mon Mothma — even Dedra. Other writers have said they find their characters still banging around in their heads after they’ve finished. Is that something that’s happening for you?

To be clear, I’m not cold-blooded in the literal sense. I’ve never possessed such characteristics naturally. However, I’ve heard others describe similar traits. For me, energy conservation is a priority and I don’t expend it unless required for active work. It can seem peculiar at times.

You just called Episode 10, which explores Luthen and Kleya’s relationship, “a special temple.” How did you navigate handling the flashbacks to the beginning of their connection?

Initially, when Stellan joined the project, I consented to his involvement in merely two seasons. The plan was always to write his character out in Season 2. As discussions about Luthen’s backstory arose, one request stood out – “I don’t want it to be about revenge.” This led us to develop an intricate history for him, which unfortunately became too complex and elaborate, eventually being abandoned or discarded.

As Elizabeth Dulau made her appearance, there was no denying her extraordinary talent. That’s one of the wonderful aspects of these productions – watching actors grow and develop right before your eyes. For me, she was no longer just an apprentice; she was to become the central figure. Above all, I wanted to ensure that our viewers would understand their relationship clearly. I didn’t want anyone to misconstrue it as romantic or unusual, and I certainly didn’t want anyone to leave the show with the impression that he had manipulated her thoughts in any way.

Thankfully, Elizabeth set the tone for a highly intense journey from the start, with nothing but determination and grit leading the way. Her outstanding portrayal in Season 1 paved the way for this: “Wow, she’s really steering the ship.” We ensured the directors, Stellan, and Elizabeth herself were all on the same page about it, and tailored the scenes to reinforce this impression. However, this is a sensitive area, and I expect some discussions regarding it. But I truly believe that this creative process is collaborative and unmanipulative. Indeed, you’ve touched upon a complex topic there. Did it seem that way to you?

It struck me as an adoptive parent-child relationship.

But he’s afraid of her all the time. You realize she’s the thing he’s most afraid of.

She definitely has the stronger will. I don’t think, had their roles been reversed, that Luthen could’ve gone to the hospital and unplugged her — and do it in such a way that everyone assumes it must’ve been three or four people.

It turns out, that’s her! We incorporated all the “Bourne” elements within it, which stirred up some debate. The production lacked funds to construct it, but I believe the hospital set was the most impressive in the entire series from a director’s perspective. If you’re a director, just consider Alonso [Ruizpalacious]’s resources – the hotel layout, sight lines, and geography are simply extraordinary. Honestly, that episode is one of my favorites; I really enjoy it.

Why was the hospital controversial?

Due to our financial requirements, we had to make some adjustments. When asked how much was needed, we responded with an offer of a hallway. However, we soon realized that wasn’t enough, so we kept asking for more. [Production designer] Luke [Hall] managed to pull this off on a tight budget. It doesn’t appear to be, but it is. It’s all about illusion and clever tricks, really. Kudos to Luke Hall!

“Andor” was part of Disney’s first wave of development for Disney+, when the entire industry was fixated on pouring as many resources as they could into getting their streamers going. That energy has flipped into a period of contraction. Do you feel like a show of the scope and ambition of “Andor” would even be greenlit today?

It’s beyond a doubt that I’m uncertain about this matter. To put it plainly, I have my doubts if we could repeat the massive production scale of our show in the same way again as a one-time event. It seems less likely that people will opt for shooting scenes in-camera as much as they did before. Instead, I anticipate advancements in AI and volumetric filmmaking to become more refined. Frankly, I’m unsure if anyone would attempt to create a show of this scale using traditional methods. As you are well aware, I defer to your expertise on the matter.

The outcome will likely hinge on its success, wouldn’t you agree? In other words, our show is driven by the factor that makes “Game of Thrones” so popular – the desire to see what happens next. However, I must admit, Adam, I find it difficult to foresee outcomes these days.

Has making “Andor” changed the way you think of your own ambitions?

My ambitions?

I’ve talked to people at all levels in the industry — from people who’ve have had a huge amount of accomplishment to people who are starting out — who look at “Andor” as an inspiration. Like, “I want to do something like that.” So I’m wondering if actually doing it has that reframed anything for you?

This experience proved beneficial for me. It rescued me from a predicament often referred to as “movie jail”. Prior to being approached by Kathy Kennedy of Lucasfilm, I had unexpectedly lost two major film projects. I found myself asking, “What’s going on here? Could it be that my time has run out?” But then this opportunity presented itself. In a way, it broadened my audience. I believe it also contributes to the success at the box office, which is certainly advantageous.

In addition, I significantly improved my writing skills surprisingly late in life, due to various factors. I was captivated by the topics I was writing about, which allowed me to write without worrying about page counts as I usually do when working as a screenwriter. Although the writers on the show are important, ultimately everything must be traced back to my desk. Whatever leaves my desk is filmed, and I get to see it a month later or even tomorrow. This gives me the opportunity to observe how the audience reacts to episodes 4, 5, and 6 today. My connection with the audience has become more acute, and I have gained a better understanding of what people can grasp and comprehend. As a result, I have become a stronger writer, which is my main takeaway.

As a movie critic, my aspiration isn’t to be typecast as the “revolution guy.” After penning films like “Dolores Claiborne,” I was known as a woman’s writer, and with “The Cutting Edge,” a sports writer, even dabbling in rom-coms. Following “Devil’s Advocate,” I found myself associated with every Satanic script in town. After “Bourne,” I was labeled the spy guy. I yearn to break free from these labels and continue working. Frankly, who wouldn’t want to emulate Christopher Nolan? Yet, I’m not at that level where I can simply say, “Give me the green light and the funds, and I’ll deliver.” My ambition is to ask, “Will I ever have another chance to showcase my versatility?” That’s what I long for.

Have you seen any kind of halo effect of interest in working with you because of “Andor”?

Not yet. Not at all.

What can you tell me about this new film you’re writing and directing?

The subject at hand is movie scores, and I used to be a musician in my younger days, taking it quite seriously for some time. I found immense joy while being in recording studios, and perhaps I could have made a good record producer, though I’m unsure. When we move on to the composition phase, that’s where I truly thrive. This same exhilaration came over me when we were working on “Rogue” at Sony’s scoring stage, which reminded me of touring law firms during “Devil’s Advocate.” The thought crossed my mind: there has got to be a movie here. Consequently, I dreamt up a film about a symphonic cellist who returns to L.A. for session work. The entire narrative unfolds through the musical cues – these cues trigger flashbacks from the past 20 years, explaining why he left and why he’s returned. This movie rides the wave of music.

How far along are you?

I’ve been fortunate enough to have Oscar Isaac on board as my cellist since October, and we’re joined by executive producer Sanne Wohlenberg in this venture. My brother Johnny is also involved. We’ve secured a tax credit, but we’re still striving to clear the final hurdle. The production takes place in L.A., a notoriously challenging location for filming, as many are aware. This project revolves around film scoring, a vital yet often overlooked aspect of cinema, much like the fragile beauty of coral reefs. Sadly, it’s rapidly disappearing, and if we don’t act swiftly, it could perish entirely. The enthusiasm for our movie is immense due to various reasons, but the difficulty in bringing it to life is equally great.

You’re probably sick of this question, but separate from “Star Wars,” do you have an appetite for working inside one of these large franchise properties again?

Currently, I’m focusing on a different film project. I prefer working on a grand scale. Over the years, I’ve found that I can only concentrate on one task at a time. I never schedule projects ahead. I don’t have a production company or office supplies. I haven’t had an assistant for half a year now. My wife dislikes this term, but I guess you could say I prefer to work in a bespoke manner. In other words, I want to handle every detail myself, just like a tailor sewing each buttonhole by hand. So, I keep my focus on one task at a time.

A gleaming, lustrous item is no different – if the moment and emotions align perfectly, then action follows. Money was once a driving force for me, but that need has lessened over time, leading me to make distinct decisions. Nowadays, I focus on one task at a time. The current task is what I’m keen on doing now.

Finally, what’s something about making “Andor” that you haven’t had a chance to discuss as much?

I’m growing increasingly intrigued by the process behind creating shows, especially observing how others carry it out. When I first appeared on “Clayton,” I joined a roundtable discussion and discovered everyone there was a professional director – they had all solely directed before. For the initial half hour, I barely spoke because I was just absorbing their insights. They were all familiar with directing only in the way that they knew how to direct. By then, I’d worked with 20 directors, but none of them had ever witnessed someone else doing it.

In my role as a showrunner, I’ve often found myself intrigued by the unique approaches others take to their work. The only other person whose process I’ve glimpsed was Beau Willimon, during our time collaborating on “House of Cards.” My interactions with the team were limited, and my role was somewhat peculiar on that project. After watching the David Chase documentary, I found myself in awe, thinking, “This is completely opposite to what we did, yet it worked so well for them.” This has sparked a genuine, albeit naive and perhaps foolish curiosity within me about how other showrunners operate. I’m eager to learn more about their methods because our team developed an unconventional system that seemed to work exceptionally well for us.

This interview has been edited and condensed.

2025-05-14 20:49

Tony Gilroy Reveals ‘Andor’ Finale Secrets & Future Plans