‘Severance’ Creator and Ben Stiller Unpack the Finale: What’s Next for Mark and Helly? What’s Up With Reintegration? And How Long Until Season 3?

Warning: Major Spoilers Ahead!
As a dedicated cinephile, let me share my thoughts about the latest twist in “Severance.” Last night, I dived into Season 2, Episode 10 of the captivating Apple TV+ series, and boy, was it a rollercoaster! The shocking revelation that Mark and Helly are actually one person left me reeling. I can’t wait to see where this mind-bending tale takes us next!

Mark Scout is at a mind-bending crossroads in the scorching Season 2 finale of “Severance.”

Mark braved through hell and back to rescue his wife, Gemma, from Lumon’s Testing Floor depths, and with the assistance of his innie, he successfully extracted her safely from the building. After two years of mourning someone who was essentially absent, Mark can now reunite with the object of his affection in the world beyond.

In fact, it’s somewhat different, as the persona he crafted to deal with her passing has its own agenda instead.

Following a disastrous discussion recorded on camera at the divided birthing site, Innie Mark experiences a life-changing realization similar to meeting Kier. For the first time in “Severance”, Innie prioritizes his individual existence above that of his outie. Despite potentially saving Gemma, once he leaves the office, his outie will not return, effectively erasing him from existence.

Instead, let’s rephrase this in a more natural and easy-to-understand manner: “Innie Mark decides to live, abandoning Gemma and taking Helly’s hand to rush through Lumon’s chaotic corridors. As Ben Stiller, the director and executive producer, puts it, ‘Young love plunges headfirst into the depths of chaos.’

Initially, there was a fleeting consideration about continuing with a cliffhanger scenario involving Mark being caught between Helly and Gemma, as Stiller explained to EbMaster. However, it didn’t take long for us to recognize that we couldn’t do that again – the backlash would be severe. Instead, we decided to let Mark make his own decision and establish a conflict within a dystopian setting.

In separate discussions with EbMaster, creators Dan Erickson (of “Severance”) and Stiller addressed a multitude of unanswered queries from viewers regarding the Season 2 finale. Amongst the most frequently asked questions was the release date for Season 3, which Apple TV+ officially confirmed on Friday morning.

However, when inquired if measures are being implemented to expedite the release of the upcoming season of the popular sci-fi series, Erickson affirms, “Indeed.

We’re crossing our fingers that nothing major like strikes, pandemics, or earth-shattering events happen to cause delays. Assuming everything goes smoothly, I’d really like to see this project completed earlier. However, ‘Severance’ has always been a show requiring careful craftsmanship, and we’re pleased with the results, despite the time it took.

In this episode, Innie Mark and Outie Mark have a conversation with each other, through a camcorder. It seems like the first time that Mark is split into two irreconcilably different people with different objectives.

Ben Stiller: It’s becoming apparent that these two characters have distinct goals. For the first time, they are expressing their desires. Externally, Mark is assertively asking for his wife’s return, while Internally, Mark is forcefully advocating for something else. This clash will generate an abundance of narrative and tension as we progress, since both characters have powerful reasons supporting their individual causes.

Outie Mark speaks sort of condescendingly to Innie Mark and seems not to fully recognize his personhood. Is there a world in which Outie Mark could have communicated better to get Innie Mark on his side?

Stiller: Indeed, Outie Mark’s perspective is somewhat understandable, but he seems to overlook the depth and self-awareness of Innie Mark. He attempts to exert some control over Innie Mark, who is growing and fully conscious of the current circumstances. Innie Mark raises a valid concern: if we proceed with this plan, it could lead to his demise, and all his companions might cease to exist. Outie Mark’s intentions are sincere – he yearns to be with Gemma – but he fails to acknowledge the fact that he has created another aspect of himself, which he refuses to accept. I believe Outie Mark is unaware that this other self is an integral part of him, a reflection of who he truly is. He wishes to disavow it. This peculiar, intricate predicament may be theoretical, but I feel that both these aspects symbolize elements within us that we all harbor.

Mark’s reintegration seemed like a big step for the show in Episode 3, but by the end of the season, it hasn’t fully coalesced. Will that merging of innie and outie happen? Is it reversible? Outie Mark tells Innie Mark he will finish the process, but what does that actually mean?

Dan Erickson’s Interpretation: Mark’s decision to undergo reintegration signifies a deep longing to reclaim his wife, but it also suggests self-destruction given the potentially fatal consequences and uncertainty about identity preservation on the show. It is fitting that Devon, who has always been protective of Mark, intervenes, essentially telling him, “We’ll help you find your wife, but you mustn’t sacrifice yourself in the process.” However, at the season’s end, Mark is unsure if this intervention will be temporary or if he’ll continue to experience glimpses from his former life. This is a question that remains unanswered as we move forward into future seasons.

As a film enthusiast, I can’t help but notice the uncertainty in Outie Mark’s words. He seems to be grasping at straws, saying whatever comes to mind. His promise of reintegration sounds appealing, but I sense he’s more focused on persuading Innie Mark rather than executing a plan. Whether he’ll actually follow through with his ideas remains to be seen; he’s unsure if they’ll work or how risky they might be.

When did you realize that the ending of the season would be Innie Mark choosing to stay inside Lumon with Helly rather than follow Gemma outside?

Stiller: From the start of this series, I always sensed that this would be the natural conclusion for the season. The bond between Mark and Helly in Season 1 seemed destined to develop into something tangible, creating a tension with Mark’s relationship with Gemma on the outside. It all fits perfectly – Inner Mark is living his own separate life. (In a way that’s easy to understand and follows logically.)

The way things are left, it would seem that if either Mark or Helly’s innies were to leave the office, their outies would, logically, never go back inside. What does that mean for the show going forward?

Erickson: It reveals their mindset in the critical instant before they flee. I don’t believe they have a specific destination in mind for their chase, but rather they are escaping something – non-existence. They’ve both reached the same conclusion you mentioned: they crave life, whether it be five more minutes or five more years. Whatever duration they seek, they desire to persist. If they wish to sustain their shared life, they must discover a means to remain on that floor.

Forgive me if this is an oversimplified question, but is the audience’s loyalty supposed to lie more with Outie Mark or Innie Mark?

Stiller: What’s captivating about this – you can’t predict. You can’t tell how you should feel towards it. The intention behind the extensive history of Mark and Gemma in Episode 7 is to stir up emotions in viewers, as there’s a lot riding on their relationship, despite its limited screen time. Some spectators might be wishing for Innie Mark, while others could exclaim, “Oh my goodness, Gemma! Mark has the option to leave through that door!

What are Ms. Cobel’s motives, and why should Mark and Devon have any reason to trust her?

Erickson points out that Mark appears to be heading towards self-destruction through his actions with Asal [Reghabi, the reintegration surgeon]. Self-destructive behavior is a recurring pattern with Mark, and what he’s doing now is just an extreme version of that. From their perspective, there seems to be no other option than what Mark is doing. Cobel appears to wear many masks, and it’s unclear who she truly is. Despite being deceived by Cobel in Season 1 [where she presented as the doula Ms. Selvig], Devon has also seen something genuine in her that he trusts. There were moments of vulnerability between them in Season 1. In making this calculated decision, Devon believes there’s some authenticity in Cobel and doesn’t think the persona he saw was entirely fake. With no other viable choice, they rely on faith.

With Drummond dead, Cobel switching alliances and Milchick shown in a more empathetic light, what does that mean for the antagonists of the show going forward?

Stiller: I aimed for our series to keep viewers guessing about the origins and loyalties of the antagonists, including Cobel and Milchick, who may not be as straightforwardly evil as they seem. This season, you’ll see more layers to Cobel, but her objectives remain murky. The same is true for Milchick, who appears to be deeply entrenched in a cult-like organization, making him difficult to predict due to his loyalty to Kier and Lumon’s ideology. I hope that the final scene with Milchick leaves you questioning his next move or where he might be headed.

What exactly are the stakes with Gemma and the Cold Harbor test? If Mark hadn’t rescued her, would Lumon have literally killed her?

Stiller: I believe we can’t predict what transpired there, but it’s evident Lumon has strong feelings towards Mark at that stage, as Drummond seems ready to choke him. Their intentions for Gemma following the test remain unclear, though it was undoubtedly a significant moment for them. The chip in her brain controlling her multiple personalities played a crucial role in that test.

Do the sacrificial goats imply that what Lumon is doing to Gemma has been done many times before? Or is the Gemma project the first of its kind for Lumon?

We can verify that this action indeed takes place. It seems to be a regular, ceremonial event, which I presume has occurred previously. Lorne [the character played by Gwendoline Christie] asks Drummond, “How many more must I sacrifice?” While it’s unclear if the goats were used specifically for this purpose or another, it’s safe to assume that some form of warm-blooded creature’s blood has been shed in this location before, whether human or goat.

One of my colleagues interviewed your production designer, Jeremy Hindle, who said the show uses the color red sparingly, “whenever there’s a bit of real love.” This episode ends with red alarms flashing throughout the halls and red blood all over Mark’s shirt. And it, quite strikingly, fades to red, rather than black.

Stiller: We’ve never encountered something like this before in the series. The colors have been quite particular, but this time it’s a sign that we’re venturing into new territory. Red typically symbolizes emotions like love and passion. However, things are taking a turn for the unexpected. This shift is bringing about a distinct atmosphere.

Will we get closure on why Irving has presumably been down to the Exports Hall? Or is that storyline considered resolved?

Erickson shared that they had thought about and talked over providing a more detailed explanation this season, but in the end decided against it. Unfortunately, I’m unable to predict or disclose what will happen next.

Lumon’s overall mission as a company — to “eliminate pain” — is explained more at the end of this season. Is that an inherently dystopian goal, or is it just their methods that are dystopian?

Stiller’s perspective: Eliminating pain may not be inherently dystopian or incorrect, but it raises deeper questions about human experience. For instance, can we truly appreciate joy without knowing pain? And if we erase the painful moments, do we also lose our history and memories? I don’t yearn for a life free of pain myself. As for Lumon, it brings up another discussion about corporate culture. Initially founded by Kier, the company has been shaped differently by each successive CEO, which leads us to ponder: What’s the gap between a company’s original idea and its eventual evolution?

If the central question of Season 2 is, “Will Mark be able to find and save Gemma?,” what is the central question that you’re setting up with the finale?

Assistant: In Season 3, I’m unable to reveal specific details about what we’ll delve into, but the instance where Mark turns his back on Gemma echoes significantly with the opening scene of the season where he exits the elevator and immediately heads towards her out of a sense of duty. This season might pose an intriguing question: How do we transform Mark from that point – where he reflexively seeks her because he feels it’s his obligation – to a phase where he focuses on his own life and relationships? That moment, he thinks he’s done the right thing by rescuing Gemma. But just because he believes he’s fulfilled his duty, doesn’t mean he has to sacrifice his own existence. So, we’re left pondering, “How can you endure for one more minute? What would you be willing to relinquish to survive for another minute?

Are there steps being taken to make sure that the next season doesn’t take as long as Season 2?

Erickson: We’re hoping for a smooth production process without any significant disruptions like major strikes, pandemics, or natural catastrophes that might cause delays. Assuming everything goes as planned, we’d certainly aim to release it earlier. However, “Severance” has always been a series known for its meticulous production, and we’re pleased with the end result, despite the time it took to create it.

Do you have a favorite line of dialogue in the show?

Stiller: I found the back-and-forth banter between Milchick and the Kier statue, as written by Dan, particularly amusing in their comedy skit. The funniest moment in the entire series for me is from Season 1, where Petey is in the basement and, upon seeing a flashback of Mark, asks, “What’s that, Sudoku?” I always burst out laughing when Adam delivers that line.

The moment when Dylan exclaimed “Fuck you, Mr. Milchick!” for the first time was particularly delightful for me. It’s an expression of bold defiance, but noticeably, he hasn’t completely broken free from the system, still addressing him with a title like ‘Mr.’ Even in his rebellion, there remains a hint of respect.

These interviews have been edited and condensed.

2025-03-21 18:48