In this captivating interview, I find myself deeply moved by the profound wisdom and resilience that Emilio Estevez, or rather, his alter-ego John Baxter, embodies. His journey through Hollywood mirrors the lives of many artists who have grappled with the relentless pressures of perfection and the fleeting nature of success in the entertainment industry.
Demi Moore casually mentions, “Be aware: She has a tendency to rule over a stuffed bear,” as her tiny Chihuahua, Pilaf, enters the room. Sitting comfortably on a kitchen stool in her LA residence, Moore watches her dog with a knowing grin. “You’re going to witness some playful behavior that might resemble mounting.”
This past year has been quite hectic for me, what with my appearance in Vogue and attending Paris Fashion Week’s front rows. Bringing Pilaf to the Cannes Film Festival in May was a bit of a gamble, as I wondered if this adorable little ball of energy would overshadow me at the premiere of my gruesome horror film “The Substance”. Maybe I suspected that the role required more ferocity than Pilaf could ever display.
Moore confesses that she wasn’t certain about how the movie would unfold, as Pilaf, now in the family room, destroys her plush toy in a sunny spot. “It’s quite unconventional,” she says. “There was a chance it could have been brilliant or a catastrophe. To put it plainly, I wasn’t very knowledgeable about the body horror genre.”
However, French filmmaker Coralie Fargeat undeniably drew inspiration from films like “Death Becomes Her” directed by Robert Zemeckis, “The Fly” by David Cronenberg, and “The Shining” by Stanley Kubrick. In her movie, Jessica Moore’s character, Elisabeth Sparkle – a former Academy Award-winning actress turned daytime TV fitness guru – splits open to reveal a younger, more perfect version of herself, portrayed by Margaret Qualley. Elisabeth is distraught after a cruel television executive (Dennis Quaid) terminates her show. In desperation, she resorts to an underground drug that manipulates her DNA to create an enhanced duplicate. The catch? Elisabeth must alternately inhabit her two identities, old and young, every seven days – or face the consequences. This theme carries a double symbolic significance: for those who have ever felt dismayed by the appearance of a wrinkle in the mirror and yearned for a change, and for audiences reevaluating Moore’s acting prowess.
In the role of a star waning with self-contempt, who mirrors themselves destructively, Moore shines brighter than ever on screen. According to Fargeat, “The character required an actress who served as a symbol.” However, he believed that such actresses would be deterred by immersing themselves in something that forces them to grapple with their own fears. Demi, at this point in her life, had faced all the apprehensions embodied by her character and the violence and self-loathing it triggers. She has come to terms with these challenges in a serene manner.
Unlike Elizabeth, who continually discards her self-confidence to gain male approval, Moore, now aged 61, feels more at ease than ever in her own body. “The movie poses a significant thought: If you persistently pursue something believed to be superior, there’s a risk of losing what is already yours,” she comments.
It took quite a journey to reach this point: Following her promising debut as an actress in “St. Elmo’s Fire” (1984) and “About Last Night” (1986), her career really took off in the 1990s with blockbusters like “Indecent Proposal,” “Disclosure,” and of course, “Ghost.” However, as she entered her time as the world’s highest-paid female star, marked by films such as “Striptease” and “G.I. Jane,” and gracing the cover of Vanity Fair while nude and visibly pregnant, the focus shifted from her talent to her physical appearance. Regrettably, her skills seemed to take a back seat in that period.
Following a series of failures, she chose to withdraw from public attention ahead of it potentially leaving her, much like Elisabeth Sparkle, ensuring the upbringing of her three kids (at that time with husband Bruce Willis) in Hailey, Idaho.
With her candid 2019 memoir “Inside Out” and gritty performances in series like “Feud: Capote vs. the Swans” and now “The Substance,” Moore has demonstrated a readiness to expose the rawer aspects beneath her iconic persona. Qualley remarks that Moore was tenacious in perfecting her character, constantly striving for refinement and gaining a deeper understanding after each take.
“The film titled ‘The Substance,’ currently captivating Cannes and set to be shown at the Toronto International Film Festival this week, is generating the most favorable critiques of Moores’s career and sparking some Oscar discussions. This serves as a testament to what viewers have been deprived of.”
Get ready for the Demi-ssance.
Let’s start with the 11-minute standing ovation this movie got in Cannes, your first time with a film in competition.
I’ve read some stories that said it was 13 minutes.
After this, I will sit you down for a long talk about how EbMaster calculates standing ovations at festivals. It’s fair to say “The Substance” is one of the most brutal films about aging in Hollywood ever made. Why did you say yes?
I found it an exceptionally captivating approach to delve into the topic. Although it’s primarily centered on women’s experiences, I strongly believe its themes resonate with everyone – the sensation of being disregarded, unacknowledged. A sense of undervaluation in our unique identities.
Coralie told me that you gave her a copy of your autobiography before your first meeting. Why did you do that?
Coralie is incredibly careful and detailed in her approach. In total, we met on six different occasions before she formally offered me the role. During this time, she was meeting with numerous individuals, aiming to find suitable actors for the two leading characters. I presented her with my book as a means of showcasing my personal experiences and the significance I attach to my body. The emotional turmoil I’ve endured also resonated with her. It seemed that she recognized and appreciated my deep understanding of the character.
You were open in your book about your struggle to stay thin, and how it almost cost you work. Were you concerned about doing a project that was so body-centric?
I felt no apprehension regarding the topic, as I recognize its universal appeal. However, I gave careful thought to the amount of openness and authenticity needed. It’s those moments that challenge us beyond our familiar boundaries that offer the most significant potential for personal development.
You’ve always conveyed your sexuality in fascinating and artistic ways, both on-screen and with your memorable Vanity Fair covers. You got a lot of criticism for it, especially in the ’90s. For “Striptease,” much of the conversation around the film was about your topless scenes and your salary.
One common misunderstanding about me is that I cherished my physical appearance. In truth, many of those aspects were me taking on specific roles as a means to conquer my body image concerns. This was also true for the Vanity Fair covers; it wasn’t about loving the experience – it was more about striving to break free from the self-imposed prison I found myself in.
What I find intriguing is subjects that stimulate deep contemplation, not just those with sexual connotations, but rather thought-provoking ones. For instance, “Striptease” was intriguing because it challenged societal judgments towards women who dance for a living, suggesting that this was a woman doing her best to care for her child. Similarly, I found “G.I. Jane” compelling, questioning why the opportunity for service should be denied to a capable and determined woman. The same can be said for many of my films, where themes such as those in “Indecent Proposal” and “Disclosure” resonate. These stories often present women in roles that challenge traditional norms, like the aggressor or abuser.
Have you ever lost out on a part you wanted because of the provocative roles you’ve taken?
I don’t know if I would say I lost out. What do you mean, specifically?
Were there other, more serious dramatic parts you wanted, similar to what you did in “The Scarlet Letter”? I guess that one didn’t really connect.
Roland Joffé, a British director, chose to alter an iconic American novel and provide it with a joyful conclusion instead. We had a film producer involved who believed that the movie wouldn’t be successful if it ended tragically, which was beyond my control. This same producer also described me as a “popcorn actress,” implying I lack critical acclaim.
I hope he read the reviews for “The Substance.”
That particular thought has left an impression on me, constantly comparing it to my own self-perception. However, many of my movies haven’t seemed to receive the same level of reflection or evaluation.
Which ones do you think didn’t get the credit they deserved?
Reflecting on the movie “G.I. Jane,” there was a group determined to halt its release before it premiered. Following one another, I starred in “Striptease” and “G.I. Jane.” If any phase in this profession has been challenging, it was having these two films released concurrently, coupled with being the highest-paid actress during that period. That moment stood out for me as it transcended personal achievements; it symbolized altering the game for all women. However, due to my character portraying a stripper, I was seen as letting down women. And since I played a soldier, I was perceived as betraying men.
The story took an unexpected turn, implying that her wage was low because she was a dancer in a club. This struck me deeply. Yet, I also realized that anyone who dares to disrupt the norm faces backlash. This applies equally to those who challenge established systems.
If you could do it over, would you make those movies again?
Oh, definitely. They gave me so much. That’s ultimately all I have, my experience.
You’re one of a handful of actresses who are instantly associated with an unforgettable movie moment — you and Patrick Swayze at the pottery wheel in “Ghost,” for instance. Why has that movie endured?
The film carries a sense of comfort; it explores how even seemingly lost aspects may linger with us.
Do people send you pottery?
As for “Ghost,” I must confess, my pottery skills left much to be desired. It’s interesting to note that pottery has seen a revival during the pandemic. Many have been purchasing kilns instead.
There’s been a few attempts to remake this movie, most recently with Channing Tatum. What do you think?
Certain movies are best avoided by some viewers, but this depends on individual perspectives. The triumph of “Ghost” can be attributed to a unique blend of factors. For instance, Whoopi Goldberg added an enchanting touch to the comedy aspect. Similarly, Tony Goldwyn, portraying the neighbor next door, was surprisingly effective as the unassuming antagonist. Not forgetting Patrick Swayze’s captivating charm and vitality. Channing Tatum, known for his intelligence and talent, could potentially bring something remarkable to a possible remake.
Would you be open to reprising your role?
I’d have to see what they come up with.
I was surprised by the way the media treated you in the ’90s. Can I read some of their remarks and questions to you?
Please.
For “A Few Good Men,” a male journalist sat with you for 10 minutes and didn’t ask a single question. He critiqued your appearance and called you “sexy, but classy.”
Hmm.
Barbara Walters asked if you felt “degraded” while filming “Striptease,” at the same time that she said she understood why you’d bear your naked body since it was so beautiful.
Interesting.
Rosie O’Donnell said that “G.I. Jane,” in which you famously shaved your head, gave “new meaning to the word ‘topless.’”
OK, that’s fucking funny.
I don’t think any of this would fly today.
Based on what you’ve shared, it seems like situations or circumstances have evolved. It’s clear that there are tasks left to complete, but the essence of this transition is about making progress, rather than striving for flawless results.
When it comes to pursuing perfection, in “The Substance” you have to quickly establish the sense of despair your character feels over the loss of her youth. How did you get to that place as an actor?
In my perspective, I discovered the sanctuary of truth amidst the abyss of despair. The carpet was swiftly taken from beneath her feet, following her job loss. We all realize this woman resides alone, unmarried, and childless, making it apparent she had only her reputation to lean on. She invested everything into that.
There’s something shocking about Elisabeth getting fired from her long-running fitness show for being too old, because she’s still incredibly fit and beautiful. Is that just the entertainment business?
In the storyline, it was crucial that I wasn’t initially portrayed as shattered and unappealing. This film delves into the male perception of the ideal woman, a standard that many women have adopted unconsciously. It isn’t about external manipulation; rather, it highlights self-inflicted damage. The question arises: why, after being given an opportunity for change, doesn’t she venture out, produce her own show instead? However, she persists in following the same path and yearns for the same validation.
Your character is also an Oscar winner turned exercise guru.
Often, folks wonder about the nature of this film. I typically respond by suggesting they imagine combining “The Picture of Dorian Gray,” “Death Becomes Her,” and a typical Jane Fonda exercise video – that should give you a pretty good idea.
Coralie says that the most intense day for you on set was the scene where Elisabeth is getting ready for a date. She keeps running back to the mirror to wipe off her makeup and then apply even more, fearing she looks too old. Coralie said something broke in you.
It was extremely challenging. One of the most emotional scenes in the movie left me speechless. I believe many people can understand the struggle of trying to improve oneself, only to end up making things increasingly worse. Coralie often demands multiple takes, and by the end, my face felt completely worn out. I reached a breaking point where I couldn’t continue. However, even Coralie of the film, Coralie insisted on one more take, Coralie’ a take, previously unopened can of worms – Coralie demanded yet another take. The makeup artist finally intervened and declared, “We have reached our limit.”
What was happening at the time?
The situation was a peculiar form of insanity. There were actually three distinct arrangements within that scene, and at least 15 attempts for each one. Additionally, gazing into the mirror and perceiving only your flaws – it’s as if you’re striving to enhance your ugliness, so you can reflect how you feel inside.
Did making “The Substance” change how you feel about aging?
Reframing the situation, I’ve come to realize that it’s not just about the change, but more so about the newfound self-understanding and acceptance. Throughout my professional journey, I’ve consistently sought to shatter expectations and break free from imposed boundaries. Now, I find myself writing my own narrative, a story that isn’t defined by numbers on a calendar, but by my actions and achievements instead.
It’s not like there are rules dictating how someone should appear or act at any age. Times have changed, and your sixties are far from what they used to be – a time of I’95000- a new norms days gone by embracing 600 to enjoy the journey of self-discovery. In my forties, I faced more career struggles compared to now. Back then, people weren’t sure how to categorize me, as I didn’t fit neatly into typical roles like those of a young adult or a middle-aged mother. Essentially, there was no clear place for someone like me in society at that time.
You did the “Charlie’s Angels” sequel in your 40s.
In the movie, I reached the age of 40. Following this milestone, there seemed to be an overwhelming attention on my physical appearance, leaving people unsure about where to place me. However, it appears that things have shifted. Nowadays, we witness a greater variety of intriguing roles for women aged between 40 and 50 – roles I’d describe as those for “younger women.” The film “The Substance” presents a raw portrayal of the entertainment industry, its biases, and its beauty standards. Yet, it also challenges the notion that a woman’s attractiveness is limited to her fertility within Hollywood.
There’s a terrible scene where Dennis Quaid’s network boss sits you down and basically says that women are useless once menopause starts.
1. You’re done: This means “You have completed something.” If historically, that was true in terms of how women were perceived, it refers to a period where women got past a certain point, they were relegated to other roles. The good news is, it’s changing. I did an interview with Michelle Yeoh, and I feel like she’s such an inspiration. She’s breaking through to show there are different places you can go, and that desirability isn’t tied to anything but your being.
Have you ever come across a Quaid-like character in your career, an executive or producer who sat you down and said, “You’re done”?
It’s been less overt. Like I said before, the door was a bit closed in my 40s. I felt it more in what was available to me. But there was other work I needed to do for myself that wasn’t my career. Internal work. I really live with the perspective that everything is happening for us, not to us.
Do you ever watch your movies?
Once upon a time, when the family is united, the children will present something, and I’ll observe a couple of moments. But then when I act like Andrew McCarthy’s “Brat Pack” documentary that just appeared, I see trifling bits of my endeavors backthen, and I go, “Oh, engage in, I was so unrefined.” Thank God I got the opportunity to work more.
Why do you think the Brat Pack has reemerged into the culture, particularly with Andrew’s film?
Things find their time. There’s a whole generation that has no clue what “St. Elmo’s Fire” is, but Andrew had a genuine desire to explore the effect it had on those of us who were in it. I know he’s taken a few hits here and there. People really have to put themselves in the place of 22-year-old actors — there was a lot of pressure around us for perfection and no room for failure. There was also no language for mental health back then. There’s an enormity to being in the early stages of a career and fearing being seen as unserious. None of us liked being called a brat. We all grew up with the idea of “brat” being a bad thing.
Have you heard of Brat Summer?
Yes! That young singer Charli. Everything is brat!
At this juncture in discourse, Moore is sent a few pictures through messaging from her personal stylist, Brad occasionally checks them on her tablet. Moore leans up at this instance.
What’s wrong?
I may not be flawless, but I can handle situations well enough. However, I’ve developed the ability to manage them effectively. In other words, I could say, “I’m quite capable of handling matters.”
How?
It’s all about seizing the moment and adjusting accordingly. Long ago, someone shared a phrase that’s resonated ever since. They said, “You’ll never measure up.”
She just walked up to you and said that?
She said, “You’ll never be enough, but you’ll start to know your worth once you put down the measuring stick.” This sentence seems to convey a message about understanding one’s value and position. It suggests that the person will not be sufficient, but they will start to understand their worth at some point in time, possibly using a metaphorical phrase.
Set Design: Isaac Aaron; Styling: Brad Goreski/The Wall Group; Makeup: Francesca Tolot/Cloutier Remix; Hair:Jesus Guerrero/The Wall Group; Production: Alexey Galetskiy; Look 1 (seated): Dress: Mugler; Rings: Dauphin; Earrings: Nikos Koulis; Shoes: Mugler; Look 2 (cover): Dress: Ashi Studio; Ring: DeBeers; Shoes: Le Silla; Look 3 (laying down): Sweater and shorts: Chloe; Tights: Caledonia; Earrings: Jennifer Meyer; Ring: Walters Faith; Shoes: Le Silla; Look 4 (black dress with gloves): Alaia
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2024-09-03 18:43