Atlus discusses the potential of turn-based battle systems through the lens of Metaphor: ReFantazio

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At GDC 2025 in San Francisco, California, we were fortunate enough to be present at the event where Studio Zero from Atlus delivered several talks about the creation process of the award-winning RPG, “Metaphor: ReFantazio” (which was named RPG of the Year if you didn’t catch that).

During the event, one of the lectures was given by Kenichi Goto, who is the Lead Battle Planner at Atlus. He has an impressive background, having worked on games such as Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, Persona 4 Golden, and Persona 5. As you might gather from his past work, he is particularly skilled in designing turn-based battles. His talk at GDC was titled “Crafting ‘Metaphor: ReFantazio’ and the Possibilities of RPG Command Battle Systems”.

For those who might be unfamiliar, ‘command battle systems’ are essentially what is commonly known in the Western world as ‘sequential combat’ or ’round-by-round’ conflicts.

Turn-Based Battles are the Heart of the Game

As I kick off my discussion, I liken turn-based role-playing games (RPGs) to a venerable Japanese art form. It’s crucial for us to safeguard this timeless format, yet we must also find ways to innovate and modernize it, making it appealing to today’s gamers.

Goto poses a thought-provoking query, “What do you associate with the term ‘turn-based RPGs’ among everyone here? Some common complaints I encounter are ‘it seems outdated’, ‘Returning to your game position after a loss can be tedious’, and ‘The repetitive low-level battles are tiresome..’ He acknowledges that turn-based RPG games have been losing popularity in contemporary times, and there’s a notion that the genre is now considered ‘old fashioned.’

However, rather than changing course, Atlus has flourished by specializing in turn-based RPGs over the years, as Goto explains. To keep up with contemporary gaming preferences, it was essential for us to reimagine and modernize the classic Japanese role-playing game genre, particularly since our games have gained global recognition.

He goes on to say, “I believe that our challenges will strike a chord with anyone attempting to revamp a classic game genre for today’s times.

Refantazio introduces a streamlined approach to the exhausting engagements of basic skirmishes, blending Fast and Squad combat mechanics. For those unfamiliar with Refantazio, Fast Battles are where you can attack enemies directly on the field in real-time, potentially defeating them without needing to input commands if your character is high enough level. However, if your character isn’t significantly stronger than the enemy, the Fast Battle system could either give you an edge or put you at a disadvantage when the battle transitions to the traditional Squad Battle mode.

According to Goto, Refantazio was designed from the start to combine elements of turn-based combat and action sequences. His main goal in designing the game was to minimize instances where the player’s victory seemed inevitable. Specifically, he aimed to reduce the number of ‘low-level’ battles – fights that were not challenging but still required time to complete.

As stated by Goto, the Fast Battle system was created with the aim of minimizing battles where the outcome is predictable from the start, as players often find such encounters tedious. The team aimed to cut down the time spent on overly simple battles against weaker opponents. Moreover, Goto emphasized that the rewards for Fast Battles should be equal to those of Squad Battles, eliminating any incentive to effortlessly win them in the field.

Here, Goto emphasizes that the action element was introduced as a means to achieve an objective, not for its own sake. Although it may appear similar, these two concepts are fundamentally distinct. In the process of creating Metaphor, failing to recognize this difference nearly derailed our entire endeavor.

In the creation phase of Metaphor: ReFantazio, an interesting situation arose where not just low-level adversaries could be defeated swiftly in Quick Battle, but any enemy on the battlefield. Goto acknowledges that this highly interactive action system made it simple for the developers to generate innovative concepts. Atlus then carried out tests with players, allowing them to vanquish any field enemy in Quick Battle, provided they put in the necessary effort. However, testers expressed confusion, unable to determine whether they should engage in the turn-based Squad Battle mode or if they should constantly try to defeat enemies on the battlefield in Quick Battle. They were unsure of the ideal playstyle.

Moreover, some players found themselves anxious when granted the choice to vanquish foes solely in Quick Battle mode, as they were concerned about depleting their MP during Team Battle. As Goto points out, these players would go to great lengths, even if it meant doing the unrealistic, to conclude battles on their own on the battlefield. This was surprising, given that Squad Mode offered a wider array of battle choices, enabling swifter and more efficient enemy defeat with pinpoint precision. However, Atlus could tweak the game as they wished, but some players were still apprehensive about squandering MP, viewing entering turn-based combat as a concession or defeat. Goto explains that this wasn’t connected to any specific objective or data; rather, it was a subjective feeling related to the gaming experience itself.

Additionally, this presented a significant challenge for us. To tackle this predicament, we reevaluated our vision for the game. We realized that action should primarily serve to minimize overt combats. In the team meetings, we emphasized that action is intended to guide the player seamlessly towards the core of the game – the turn-based battles. Upon examination of the finished product, one might think this was self-evident. However, it was essential for us to articulate our fundamental game concept explicitly.

This development process resulted in the ultimate form of Metaphor: ReFantazio, as Goto emphasizes in his opening story. He underlines that it was crucial for them to reaffirm their original goals and establish the core of the gameplay experience. At this point in his presentation, a slide boldly proclaims: “Turn-Based Combat is the Soul of the Game.

Defining an RPG with Resource Management

In the following part of his talk, Goto states that Role-Playing Games (RPGs) can essentially be categorized as resource management games.

Listening to our podcast, you may have noticed me frequently mentioning this point. Hearing it confirmed by an experienced developer felt quite validating, I must admit.

Goto clarifies that the primary challenge in a Role-Playing Game (RPG) is to determine if you can achieve your objective before exhausting all your supplies. A crucial resource in this context is typically referred to as MP, which stands for points used to execute actions such as attacking or healing. Deciding how to distribute your MP is a fundamental aspect of resource management within the game. He further emphasizes that HP (Health Points), MP, and items are essential resources in these games. Goto adds that when designing RPGs, it’s important to construct scenarios where players must make tough decisions regarding the use of their resources.

During his talk, Goto delved deeply into the specifics of random battles found in Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne. Though Atlus RPGs have since developed in numerous directions, key aspects such as battle mechanics and resource management have persisted. It was intriguing to learn his perspective on how surprise attacks by enemies in turn-based games influence his fundamental design ideology. However, he noted that the method of implementation has moved away from pure chance since its initial conception.

Go laughs self-deprecatingly, “Many gamers often find Atlus RPGs quite challenging. Online, you might even encounter people who label our battle designers as ‘sadists’ or ‘the embodiment of evil.’ Ouch, that stings a bit. But, I must confess, there’s something enjoyable about pushing the limits every now and then.

As a gamer, I’d say it like this: “You might wonder why we design Atlus RPGs this way. The answer lies in the fact that in games like Persona and Metaphor, the rewards you earn from your adventures and daily tasks serve a dual purpose – they not only advance your story, but also boost your abilities for combat. This means we have to make sure players feel the need for these rewards as they progress through the game, facing tougher enemies ahead. To put it simply, we aim to create battles that are challenging enough so that players can’t breeze through without these rewards. If not, they might skip everything except the fights, which would essentially render the game pointless, as they wouldn’t need to strategize or make thoughtful decisions.

Goto recognizes that there’s a boundary to his ‘cruel’ inclinations. In other words, if battles become excessively challenging and the player encounters ‘game over’ too frequently, this can lead to stress. This isn’t good game design because it fails to consider what players desire.

In his analysis of Metaphor: ReFantazio, Goto discusses some contemporary enhancements. To alleviate tension, even slightly, he emphasizes the Rewind System. This feature enabled players to restart any battle from scratch by simply pressing a button. If a player is dissatisfied with the progress or believes they’ve had bad luck, they can retry without depleting resources, as long as it’s during their turn.

According to Goto, this concept originated in the initial phases of our project’s development. Although it might appear radical, it’s worth noting that very few, even the combat design team, raised any objections during the development process.

Goto explains that some players would misuse this function, deliberately missing initial attacks to ensure they connected, and he acknowledges that others exploited the Rewind feature to secure a successful steal at the start of a fight.

Although technically speaking, this could be considered bending the rules of the game, we chose to go ahead with it anyway… There’s an unusual sense of pleasure in doing so, as if you’ve pulled off a secret trick. This feature can help players cope with feelings of injustice when unexpected events occur, by allowing them to enjoy a bit of ‘rule-bending fun’. In the end, this turned out to be a delightful enhancement to the game without undermining its essence.

Goto highlights minor enhancements in contemporary games that contribute to a player’s sense of accomplishment. For instance, autosave functions enable players to effortlessly revert and modify character types, even if they found themselves in a disadvantageous situation during battle. He argues that this feature encourages players to take bolder risks, knowing they can retry from a nearly current position.

As a gamer myself, I strive to strike a delicate balance in my game design, as seen in Metaphor: ReFantazio. Players today, especially those in Japan, are incredibly mindful about not feeling like they’ve wasted their time. For instance, when they reach a game-over screen, they feel as if their efforts were in vain. However, it’s crucial to keep gamers on the brink of game over to maintain that thrilling edge and sense of peril. Our strategy was to minimize the emotional impact that players’ efforts were wasted, thereby creating a modern gaming experience that’s engaging yet not frustrating. To cater to today’s players, it’s essential to create a balance between the danger they might hit game over and the assurance that time loss would be minimal if they do.

Nobody Likes to Write Reports, Nobody Likes to Read Reports

At the conclusion of his talk, Goto delves into how Atlus’s playtesting unit evolved during the creation of Metaphor: ReFantazio. Traditionally, Atlus has valued input from every corner of the development team when crafting games. However, they found that their previous approach of having playtesters submit their feedback in report format wasn’t yielding optimal results.

Goto points out that to the playtester, the task of writing a report seemed like a competition to find as many issues as possible, due to the overwhelming number of reports being generated. This deluge of reports left the director unable to read them all and necessitated delegation, which increased the pressure on the team leaders. It’s important to recall that people are not machines; even when criticism is constructive, humans can only tolerate so much negativity.

Despite understanding intellectually that the feedback wasn’t intended personally, written criticism could sometimes feel excessively harsh. Eventually, some project managers found the reviews so tough to handle that they stopped reading them altogether. He elaborated further.

To explore innovative methods for game testing, Atlus started live-streaming their playtest sessions internally. They installed webcams and set up meeting rooms, transmitting each test player’s screen separately. This allowed team members to communicate with one another in real-time, sharing insights about the player experience they were observing.

Team productivity increased noticeably since they were able to multitask by watching live streams alongside their regular tasks. Reading reports used to consume a lot of time… However, with this new setup, we can now watch live streams from our desks, allowing us to work on other tasks during pauses in the gameplay that pertain to our professional interests. When the tester reached a section of the game that was relevant to our area of focus, the appropriate team could easily convene and discuss their insights and observations simultaneously while watching the stream.

Additionally, Goto mentioned that this fresh approach to live-stream playtesting would uncover findings that might not surface via self-reports. To illustrate, suppose a tester managed to eliminate an adversary in just three rounds when it was intended for five rounds to be defeated. Since the tester wasn’t aware of it, they wouldn’t report this discrepancy. Nevertheless, Atlus could identify this balance issue by observing the player experience directly via the live-stream.

Besides major issues, we were also able to spot minor discrepancies that might not have troubled the testers significantly… For instance, situations where a player seemed lost even though they shouldn’t be, and it was purely by chance that they navigated through. Although these issues weren’t explicitly reported, they represented problems within the game that needed addressing. We tackled this by incorporating tutorials, NPCs, or modifying relevant text to enhance the user experience. While these details may seem insignificant, they collectively contribute significantly to improving the overall quality of the game.

Significantly, Goto mentioned that the latest live-streaming diagnostic techniques alleviated the stress associated with report reading, empowering the team to take a more active role in identifying issues and addressing them independently.

Oral communication, as opposed to written reports, often captures more depth and intricacies. This observation underscores the continued importance of direct conversations. In fact, our internal collaboration significantly enhanced, with team members proactively suggesting improvements rather than being instructed on what to correct. Live playtest streaming was incredibly beneficial; it boosted productivity, revealed issues overlooked by testers, and fostered a constructive, progressive mindset among the staff.

In this presentation, Goto finishes by stating that it is feasible to maintain the vibrancy of traditional game genres by understanding current user preferences and never losing focus on one’s goals. Personally, he feels that turn-based games have a promising future ahead. What excites him most, though, is the prospect of the exciting advancements that creators will introduce in the role-playing game (RPG) realm in the time to come.

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2025-03-28 05:27