Steven Soderbergh Reveals Shocking Secrets Behind 'Black Bag' and Future Projects!

Steven Soderbergh and David Koepp had a very offbeat idea for their next movie.

David and I discussed the idea of imagining George and Martha as spies, states Soderbergh,” explains the director. “Our goal was to create a spy-themed adaptation of ‘Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf.’

The film, titled “Black Bag,” offers a stylish, captivating, and often unpredictable thrill ride hitting theaters this Friday. This production marks Steven Soderbergh’s most casual work since he put George Clooney and Jennifer Lopez in the back of a car for “Out of Sight.” In this instance, Michael Fassbender and Cate Blanchett generate the romantic tension as George Woodhouse and Kathryn St. Jean, two intelligence agents whose relationship is strained when he uncovers that one of their team members is a traitor. The twist? Kathryn herself becomes the main suspect.

As a cinephile, I found myself in the role of host, inviting Kathryn and four other agents to two thrilling dinner parties at my elegant London residence. Throughout these evenings, I subtly dropped hints, raised tensions, and dished out warnings amidst the courses. The sequences were a testament to pacing, staging, and creating an air of suspense that would leave any viewer on the edge of their seat. These scenes were the aspects of the film that initially terrified Soderbergh when Koepp presented his script – he grappled with how to make them visually engaging. The opportunity to crack this visual puzzle was too intriguing to ignore.

As I observe his work,” I find myself saying, “Steven often presents himself with a conundrum he can’t easily solve within each project.” It seems he derives satisfaction from crafting things that challenge and intimidate him.

During a comprehensive chat prior to the glamorous debut of “Black Bag” in New York City, Soderbergh openly shared that what currently unnerves him is the public. They continuously express their desire for something intelligent and original, yet may avoid cinemas upon encountering the authentic product.

Cate Blanchett said you told everyone on the set, “This is not a film. This is a movie.” What did you mean by that?

It’s more about a sense or intuition, really. This intuition guides how I envision the film being perceived by the audience. Using “movie” instead of “film” suggests a lighter, more enjoyable tone and atmosphere. There is an alternative interpretation of this movie where it takes a darker, grittier path, but that wasn’t what I intended. We aimed for a classic Hollywood feel, with star power and glamour. That was the kind of movie I wanted to create.

How did that influence the look of the film? Were there colors you avoided? There’s a lot of almost amber lighting.

In the production, I aimed to minimize the use of red, as I wanted to create a cozy and soft-lit atmosphere that would make the actors appear captivating. Amber was my primary choice for its flattering qualities. For the first dinner scene, I desired a contrast between the luxurious appearance and the sinister undertones of the gathering. The idea was to present an inviting tableau, but one with a dark and malicious intent beneath. In contrast, the second dinner scene features harsh overhead lighting that gives off a more clinical feel, symbolizing interrogation.

I used warm amber lights to make actors look good and create a cozy atmosphere. For the first dinner scene, I wanted to make it seem inviting but also dark and sinister. The second dinner scene has harsher lighting that feels more like an interrogation room.

Those two dinner party sequences — the first, where Michael Fassbender’s character is trying to find the mole and the second where he exposes the traitor. Were those hard to shoot?

Those were the two sequences that gave me a real scare. For any director, it’s a dreadful situation – a dinner table conversation. Frankly, who would be enthusiastic about dealing with such scenes?

Why are they scary?

As a film enthusiast, I must admit that some scenes can feel overly static, with continuity issues popping up now and then. However, it’s astonishing how David manages to craft stories where such seemingly problematic scenes become the movie’s standout moments. A scriptwriting class would likely warn against such repetition, but David’s mastery of cinema allows him to push boundaries that others might shy away from.

During our work on “Presence,” I inquired about the progress of “Black Bag.” David replied with a casual, “It’s going great. I just wrote a 12-page dinner table scene.” To which I exclaimed, “Well, good luck to whoever has to direct that!

At 93 minutes, “Black Bag” is so efficient. I feel like I’ve been watching so many really long movies lately.

The script was relatively short, approximately 106 pages, designed for swift and streamlined execution. Lately, however, I’ve been focusing on brevity. “Presence” ran for about 85 minutes, while “Kimi” clocked in at around 90 minutes. The aim is to eliminate unnecessary elements during the scripting phase, as it can save both time and resources. If you are meticulous in this process, the benefits are significant. However, it’s often unexpected what resonates with audiences or goes unnoticed by them. Therefore, there may be instances where adjustments are required. I always reserve funds for reshoots, as I anticipate that certain aspects, especially in a film like “Black Bag,” which relies heavily on the pacing of information revelation, will need clarification.

Did you do a lot of reshooting?

For a couple of days, it seemed like not much time at all, but Michael’s routine became quite irregular due to his involvement with ‘The Agency.’ At some stage, there was an action I had to perform alongside Michael which required two hours of work. However, due to his schedule, I had to wait a full three months before he could do it. Everything else was completed, but we were waiting for this one crucial task.

Spy movies are such an established genre. What made this story compelling?

David devised a method to maintain its uniqueness. Instead of making it an action-packed extravaganza, he chose to delve deeply into the characters’ complexities. This transformation resulted in an intense emotional and psychological showcase rather than a physical one. Crafting a compelling story involves ending it unexpectedly yet naturally. That’s quite challenging. Sometimes you can catch people off guard, but it doesn’t resonate or feel authentic. However, if it’s too predictable, then they’re left unimpressed and dissatisfied, don’t you agree?

The pivotal moment arrives as Catherine returns home, climbs into bed, and Michael reveals, “I suspect I’ve been framed.” To which she responds, “Me too.” This scene serves as the central turning point in both the plot and the characters, causing a sense of unease about their marriage. At this juncture, they strengthen their trust and intimacy to tackle the mystery together. It’s intriguing that this film focuses on a marriage without infidelity being the main theme. Furthermore, it’s interesting to note that those around them seem somewhat irked by the harmony in their relationship.

They have a healthy relationship despite the fact that they both work in a toxic business, right?

In the realm of what’s permissible, indeed they do. Interestingly, individuals we conversed with from the intelligence community often engage in dating within their field. Due to the clandestine nature of their work, many aspects remain mysterious to outsiders. Consequently, such relationships are not met with disapproval as they would be in most other professions or social circles. Given the inherent challenges and secrecy of being a spy, it’s logical that spies might date other spies. Therefore, one could speculate that the human resources situation is quite unique.

Michael Fassbender wears glasses. Is that a nod to Harry Palmer? Also, his name is George, was that a reference to George Smiley or George from “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf”?

Absolutely! The glasses were included in the script, but since David and I are avid fans of Michael Caine’s films, we felt that this scene strongly resonated with, particularly the first two installments, due to its grandeur and thematic focus. Additionally, George was a nod to Virginia Woolf.

As a film enthusiast, I can’t help but appreciate the gritty realism in David Fincher’s style, yet there’s a touch of humor reminiscent of Smiley that intrigues me. Perhaps it wasn’t intentionally incorporated, but I find myself drawn to John le Carré’s brand of spycraft. The landscape has shifted dramatically over the last decade due to technological advancements. Gone are the days when one could maintain multiple identities and travel with several passports hidden away in a safe. Biometrics have made that nearly impossible. Today, it’s all about nurturing sources – a process that requires patience and exceptional skills in covert persuasion.

One thing I liked about “Black Bag” is it’s set in this intelligence agency, which we assume would be run by competent people, but it is riven with interpersonal disputes and struggles.

In essence, while individuals may vary, certain establishments often resemble high schools in their petty squabbles and rivalries. This realization struck me during our production of “K Street” for HBO, as it became apparent that Washington D.C. shared this characteristic.

Given your experience making “K Street” and learning about how the Beltway operates, what do you make of the current state of politics under Trump?

Reflecting on the past, the period during George W. Bush’s presidency now appears almost idyllic. Who would have imagined longing for those simpler times? It makes one question if we’ve run out of ways to express complexity. How will we find a new metaphor that surpasses this? The events unfolding are truly bizarre.

At the moment, I’m inclined towards focusing on timeless themes and ongoing issues in my stories, rather than politics. I prefer to steer clear of topics that might quickly become outdated or irrelevant, as their relevance can be short-lived compared to longer-lasting concerns. For instance, a movie like “Traffic” is relevant because the issue it addresses is persistent and can be revisited every few years with new characters and administrations, yet its significance endures. However, given the current circumstances, creating a film about the U.S. President might prove challenging due to the rapidly changing political landscape, making it difficult for me to find an effective approach. If I were compelled to make such a movie now, I’d be unsure of how to tackle it.

Do you mean you want to avoid making movies explicitly about Trump or the presidency in general?

In simpler terms, let’s discuss the concept of an office, which could be a symbol for power or a workplace. The perception of what this office represents has been changing recently. We question whether classic roles like ‘good guy’ and ‘bad guy’ still exist in reality. There is someone holding this office whose actions might be considered villainous in a movie or story, yet they were elected by many people. This raises questions about our understanding – are we mistaken? Could it be that audiences are secretly cheering for the villains in movies, and we’ve just been pretending otherwise? The most troubling aspect is, if you’re a parent, how do you teach your child right from wrong when behaviors similar to those seen in the White House are occurring?

A few years ago, you said you were exploring a philosophical sequel to “Contagion” with the film’s screenwriter Scott Z. Burns. Is that still happening?

Discussed the idea already. It needs to be fresh yet believable. One factor contributing to the movie’s appeal initially and later during the pandemic was its grounding in real-life events. We now need to come up with a unique twist, but something that feels authentic enough for viewers to think, “That could actually happen.

Would it be about another pandemic or a public health crisis?

Perhaps there’s something currently happening that only requires a small push to become significant. For me, “Contagion” was a terrifying film, so the challenge is to discover something equally frightening but real-life. In many parts of the world, particularly in the West, there’s a strong argument for the long-term environmental consequences of our dietary and respiratory habits. It’s been established that we now have plastic particles in our bodies, even in our brains. This is a relatively new phenomenon that likely has severe repercussions. There are numerous possibilities to explore in this area.

You’re writing a book about the making of “Jaws.” When will that be released?

Things are progressing gradually. I’m eagerly anticipating the completion of my upcoming film, “The Christophers,” as this might provide me with some free time for the first time in a while. With most of the groundwork laid, I can now focus on the creative aspect of writing the book. However, I have no idea how long it will take to finish, whether it’s just a couple of months or an entire year – I’m still uncertain.

The discussion revolves around film direction, with “Jaws” serving as the central example and basis for exploration. This movie is chosen because of the unique conditions under which it was produced, and the fact that its creation may not have occurred without this specific director. Without a doubt, it wouldn’t be considered a classic without his efforts. Essentially, we’re delving into an inspiring tale of Steven Spielberg overcoming a difficult production process.

“Black Bag” reportedly cost $50 million. Studios don’t really make mid-budget films like this any longer. Was it hard to get it made and have it be released theatrically?

This area is often called the ‘gap’ for mid-budgeted adult films. It seems to be an untapped market as few are producing in this category. I must commend [the film’s distributor] Focus for taking the leap, as these are the kind of movies that have defined my career. I hope this movie succeeds, not just for personal gain, but for the future of those who aspire to create similar films. I don’t want our effort to be a cautionary tale for filmmakers about why this genre is no longer viable. I believe we’ve done everything correctly. The promotional materials are solid, and the test screenings were successful. So now, the challenge lies in convincing people to leave their sofas.

Wouldn’t it have been easier to make this movie for a streamer like Netflix or Amazon? That would have shielded the film from being judged a success or a failure based on the box office grosses.

Only cinema-focused companies ventured into creating such a film, as streaming platforms opted out – an unexpected choice. Producing a movie like this and investing in a wide release is certainly swimming against the current. In essence, it’s a type of film that older audiences often lament isn’t produced anymore, but will they actually attend?

If “Black Bag” doesn’t work, will you rethink your approach to the business?

Sure!

It’s fine to make mistakes, but it’s not good to keep repeating the same mistake. So if something doesn’t work out, I won’t rush into making another movie aimed at the same audience. Instead, I need to reassess my future choices and see if there’s a common ground between what I enjoy and what people want to watch. That’s always the challenge in this game – getting people to watch what you create. The goal is to keep things manageable so that it’s not disastrous if it doesn’t go as planned. I just wrapped up filming “The Christophers” this week, and I’m still figuring out what I’ll do next. This will certainly be a factor in my decision-making process.

Do you ever think about making a franchise film, just so you can have the freedom to go make a bunch of other things that aren’t surefire commercial successes? Are you considered for those type of movies?

Actually, I’m not necessarily in the running for those roles. To be honest, I’m not entirely sure how Hollywood operates, but it seems many people assume it does one way. For me, I choose projects based on what intrigues me and gives me a bit of apprehension. There aren’t any hard-and-fast rules about the types of roles I’ll take or won’t take, with the exception that I won’t be part of a Western production.

Why won’t you make a Western?

I’m scared of horses.

2025-03-13 21:49

Steven Soderbergh Reveals Shocking Secrets Behind ‘Black Bag’ and Future Projects!