As a fan of both Saturday Night Live (SNL) and HBO, I have to say that I’m genuinely impressed by the incredible journeys of Kristen Wiig and Bill Hader post their time on SNL. It’s fascinating to see how they’ve taken their unique talents and turned them into successful careers in film and television.
The debut of the movie “The Skeleton Twins” signified a shift in the career paths for Bill Hader and Kristen Wiig. Previously, they were widely recognized for their long stint on “Saturday Night Live,” where they were predominantly known as comedic actors, often associated with characters like Stefon and Penelope, as well as their shared talent for eccentric impersonations. However, in the 2014 film “The Skeleton Twins,” Hader and Wiig stepped into a new realm of acting, portraying estranged twins grappling with life’s choices, each dealing with unresolved grief and repressed traumas. Directed by Craig Johnson, “The Skeleton Twins” was warmly received at Sundance and served as a significant turning point in the post-“SNL” careers of both Hader and Wiig.
In 2024, Wiig and Hader reconnected at the Vulture Festival in Los Angeles to reminisce about their time on SNL and the creation of The Skeleton Twins. Accompanied by the film’s co-writer and director Craig Johnson, they shared stories of making the movie as fulfilling and enjoyable. They also discussed some of the fortunate coincidences that led to the film’s popular lip-sync scene. Initially intended for the Wilson Phillips song “Hold On,” Johnson adjusted the scene when casting Wiig due to the song’s prominent role in her 2011 movie Bridesmaids. The song they ultimately selected, “Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us Now,” was the only duet Johnson considered during his search for a replacement. He explained that he had this idea for the scene only weeks before filming started, thinking, “Wait, this can be a whole thing!” and envisioning Hader attempting to get Wiig to sing, with her resisting initially. Now, this scene has gained popularity on TikTok.
Watch the panel in full below, or read on for a transcript of the conversation.
How did you and I initially cross paths, and what are your earliest recollections of our interaction? At that time, you had just joined Saturday Night Live, and we shared the same talent manager. I remember calling you before my audition.
Bill Hader: At that moment, Naomi Odenkirk was our shared manager. In fact, it was at Naomi’s house that I first met you, and we were planning to attend a Groundlings performance. She mentioned she was waiting for the babysitter, and as if on cue, the babysitter arrived – that’s Kristen right over there.
K.W.: That was me!
B.H.: I was like, “Hi,” you said, “Hi,” and then we just kept moving.
K.W.’s Experience: He provided valuable guidance during my audition process. We chatted over the phone, and he was incredibly kind-hearted. It’s common to hear tales about being on stage, “with only a few minutes, and the spotlight shining,” but he delivered his words with an uplifting tone! I gave it a shot, but no feedback came my way. Later, when the season began, I assumed I hadn’t landed the role.
B.H.: I joined SNL, and it wasn’t until the fifth episode that Kristen appeared. I thought to myself, “Did the babysitter arrive?” But then I realized I was working on a sketch for Vincent Price, so I asked her, “Can you do any classic impressions?” She replied, “I can do Judy Garland.” I inquired, “What would Judy Garland say?” To which she responded, “[does Judy Garland impression] ‘You ever get the feeling that your hands are made of sand?'” I rushed to Seth Meyers’s office and exclaimed, “The new girl is incredible!” He was surprised and said, “You’re a new cast member! What do you mean ‘new girl’?
K.W.: That’s so funny. I don’t remember that.
B.H.: You said that, and I was like, “Okay, she’s the funniest human on the planet.”
“After seeing him, what were your initial thoughts about him? To me, he seemed very comfortable and one of the best in his field.
Kristen at SNL is exceptionally talented. For the seven seasons we collaborated, I could always count on her bringing something fresh to every table read, leaving me in awe with her ability to perform various things, causing me to exclaim, “I didn’t know you could do that as well!
K.W.: It didn’t always work!
A.H: No, I often mimic an amusing Italian man’s voice, a character she portrayed. Whenever I come across something appealing, I express my enthusiasm with, “[imitates the exaggerated voice] ‘Oh yeah!'” in his unique manner.
K.W.: It has never seen sunlight. No one ever asked me to return it, yet I continued to bring it back on my own.
That’s what I love the most! And (I call out) “Thomas!” Oh, that lady. “Thomas!” I’ve still got it in me.
K.W.: Once again, I found great comfort! Upon arrival, we chatted about the experience since there’s no handbook for this.
They didn’t give me any information. I had no idea where the food was located. When I asked Lorne Michaels about it, he just shrugged and said “Right.” I also asked for something to drink, but he replied that he already knew. It was a difficult period as I wasn’t getting what I needed.
Kristen and I developed our own shorthand over time due to spending so much of it together in that setting. We’ve witnessed one another go through countless ups and downs, which has fostered mutual trust and comfort. Essentially, we’re like family on set, and this dynamic translates beautifully into the movie where we portray siblings with a genuine sibling bond.
B.H.: Do you recall the initial sketch we worked on, titled “The Australians” with Fred Armisen, which unfortunately didn’t gain any popularity and wasn’t broadcasted?
K.W.: Even the premise will probably get a groan.
B.H.: We were Australians packing for a trip.
K.W.: And we were just putting Australian things into a bag.
B.H.: “I got one can of Vegemite!”
K.W.: “One DVD of Muriel’s Wedding!”
“Here’s a doll featuring Hugh Jackman!
K.W.: The entire scene consisted of us packing items into a suitcase, securing it with a zipper, and declaring, “We’re heading to New Zealand!” Afterward, the credits rolled on.
B.H.: Upside-down —
K.W.: And backwards for like a good minute.
B.H.: To the sound of a didgeridoo.
The drawing was so quiet that I recall even hearing the whisper of the props moving, as well as Kristen’s breaths.
K.W.: “Hollywood Dish” was another one.
B.H.: Where I would spit stuff in Kristen’s face.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=watch?v=F3lEPL1nzYI
I recall distinctly from watching “Hollywood Dish” that there was an instance when it seemed inevitable that something would find its way into Kristen’s hair. Then, it became a game of trying to hold back laughter as we both anticipated the moment when it would happen.
B.H.: Once I accidentally sprayed a Slurpee, and it was freezing cold. When I heard her make that shuddering sound, I couldn’t help but laugh. She had to wipe her head, which already had a bowl on it, so she had to lift it up. I used to play the character Herb Welch, who would hit people with the microphone. One time, I had to hit Kristen in her private area with a microphone, and she let out a sound of surprise. That made me laugh as well.
It seems we haven’t quite figured out when to work on our sketches together. During these sessions, we don’t really have the freedom to improvise; instead, we mostly stick to what’s written on the card. However, I sense an element of silliness here. For instance, with “The Californians,” even though I know he’ll make me laugh, I also anticipate him doing something unexpected compared to all our rehearsals and dress-rehearsals. The audience, despite witnessing it for the first time, seems to pick up on this as well.
B.H.: Kristen, I remember the first time on-air, she said, “We can’t go then! It’ll be jammed!”
Or each time, Fred would ask, “Why are you here?”, and as it progressed from the table to rehearsal to broadcast, it became increasingly lengthy.
Who created the show “The Californians”? That was developed by Fred and James Anderson, inspired by a joke they used to tell at the dinner table about someone’s commute in Los Angeles.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=watch?v=dCer2e0t8r8
Did it take only a short amount of time for everyone involved to develop the characters in “Californians” once you decided to turn it into a sketch, or was there a longer process of understanding who these people are and finding a way to incorporate soap opera elements?
He approached me and said something along the lines of “They’re the guys from San Pedro,” since we often spoke like people from San Pedro. We were avid fans of the band the Minutemen, and we’d frequently exclaim, “I was just in San Pedro, man!” referring to our shared admiration for that place.
K.W.: Bill has qualities I rely on when writing. He’s the type of person who, during a sketch, is guaranteed to deliver an outstanding performance. If I’m unsure about a funny line, I trust Bill to make it funny. His abilities are unquestionable. I believe our chemistry with the cast was exceptional. It felt like we were all starting at a new school together, and that bond will always remain. That includes Bill, Andy Samberg, Jason Sudeikis, and me. Our connection is something we’ll always cherish.
It’s amazing that we’re just the four of us now. Each one of us has moved on to host their own shows. I can’t help but feel incredibly fortunate for having started this journey with them.
So as you’re moving through SNL, both of you do comedy movies: big, funnier, more comedic movies than get to be made now, I think. But both of you are then exiting or about to exit SNL. How does Skeleton Twins come to you?
B.H.: I did this table read for a casting director, and it was Kate Winslet, Bradley Cooper, Greta Gerwig, and Paul Dano. And then me. They’re going, “What the fuck are you doing here?” And I was like, “I know!” Then months later, the casting director said, “Hey, I have this script. I’m casting this movie, it’s a drama with some comedy in it. Would you read it?” I read it and immediately was like, “Yeah, please. Sign me up.” And then from that point, it was a year or two until we got Kristen.
B.H.: When did Kristen join your team while working under Director Craig Johnson?
Craig Johnson mentioned that approximately a year and a half had passed since the original actor assigned for the role became unavailable.
K.W.: What!? [Laughs.] I knew that.
C.J.: The success of Bridesmaids caught my attention and I was struck by Kristen’s performance, thinking, “Wow, the chemistry she has with Saturday Night Live is remarkable! This would be perfect for her!” It turned out that you both had the same representative, who were equally enthusiastic about you starring in this film. I suggested, “If you truly want this movie to succeed, consider Kristen Wiig for the role!
B.H.: They saw how much money Bridesmaids made and they were just like, “Mmm, yes!”
C.J.: At first they said, “Craig, she’s getting offered every giant studio thing.”
K.W.: Which was not true!
B.H.: She just got offered Batman.
K.W.: That was true.
B.H.: “Hi, I’m Batman! We’re out of wine!”
K.W.: Is that your impression of me?
B.H.: No! My impression of you is that you’re always cold.
K.W.: I am always cold.
Apologies to you, Craig! Every day on the set felt as if chaos reigned supreme. Remarkably, we managed to accomplish tasks despite the pandemonium. Feel free to proceed.
They mentioned that they proposed the role of Batman to her, but she wasn’t interested; instead, she wanted The Skeleton Twins. They clarified, stating that was indeed her preference. We had a meeting where we discussed various topics other than the movie, and I recall asking if this project might appeal to you. You expressed interest, but only if Bill could be part of it too. Initially, I assumed Bill would agree, but during our dinner, when I asked about the progress, you inquired if she had agreed, to which I responded that she would, provided Bill was on board. You responded positively, saying you wouldn’t refuse working with her, and then I realized we might be making a small movie together, which we eventually did.
Among all my accomplishments, including my time on SNL, I can honestly say that this project outside of my own stands out as the most extraordinary experience for me due to its intimate and low-budget nature. We didn’t have trailers, and even our Halloween scene was filmed in a Starbucks bathroom. Can you recall? People would notice me going in and out, with some even greeting me, “hey!” It was an unforgettable experience.
We seemed to be heading towards a movie-making camp, and it appeared that you all, along with Luke Wilson and Ty Burrell, were already aware of the task at hand. The rest of us were simply eager to dive in and enjoy this small sandbox for a brief period.
As a dedicated film enthusiast, collaborating with Bill on our comedic projects was nothing new, yet I’ve never felt such a profound connection with another actor. Our partnership required us to delve into uncharted territories, and I don’t intend for this statement to come off as overly dramatic or theatrical – it’s simply an expression of the deep bond we formed during our journey together in cinema.
A.I.: The film was quite intense, making us feel rather anxious. A particular scene still lingers vividly in my mind, etched there like a lasting impression. It took place in the garden, where I uttered something truly unpleasant.
B.H.: “You should have cut deeper.”
K.W.: You shouted “cut,” and it made us all tear up. I regret what I said. The entire experience of acting as siblings, trying new things for the first time, created an emotional bond between me and Bill that I’ve felt strongly about ever since.
Could you share some insights about what drew you both towards making this particular film at that point in your careers? It seems like you had specific motivations in mind when you decided to take on this project. For me, it’s much like trying to explain why you fell in love with someone; you read something and think, “Yes, exactly!” However, I can’t quite put my finger on why, it just resonated with us, if you know what I mean?
Did the dramatic nature of the acting we were expected to deliver make you anxious, since it wasn’t something we had tackled extensively before, especially over such an extended period?
K.W.: I felt anxious once we wrapped. I thought, Oh my goodness, what have I done? Was that acceptable? This is because there’s a scene where someone does something out of character for them, and I wondered, Can they pull it off? We were recognized for our work in SNL and comedic films, so I was slightly concerned about how the drama would be perceived.
Occasionally, you may find yourself enjoying a project only for it to be completely undermined. Later on, people might ask you to sign something related to that, saying things like, “This was the worst six months of my life! My marriage fell apart! I don’t want to look at that!” However, with the movie “Skeleton Twins“, I felt the opposite. I was thrilled to have been a part of it and thought it was fantastic. But on the morning of the Sundance screening, I had a severe panic attack and couldn’t leave my hotel room. Eventually, I went across the street and sat at a restaurant in Park City, staring at my phone. My wife at the time, Maggie Carey, sent me messages from inside the theater saying “They’re loving it,” and then she wrote, “Oh my God, the lip-sync scene just got a huge applause break.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=watch?v=77m3XlhQwaI
Craig Johnson guided us through every detail of the lip-sync scene.
K.W.: The entire thing.
C.J.: They’re being modest. We figured it out together.
C.J.: Initially, it wasn’t intended to be that specific song or such a significant scene in the movie. The script only mentioned that the character was upset and another was lip-syncing a song to cheer her up, with “Hold On” by Wilson Phillips as the original choice. However, Kristen Wiig suggested changing the song, and it wasn’t until a few weeks before filming that I found the new one. I wanted a cheesy ’80s tune that would make people sing along if they were alone in their car. After listening to various artists like Debbie Gibson and Tiffany, nothing seemed quite right. Then, I rediscovered “Nothing’s Gonna Stop Us Now,” by Starship. This duet inspired the idea of him trying to get her to sing the Grace Slick part, which developed into the resistant-then-singing-along dynamic that’s popular on TikTok now.
B.H.: [Does Australian accent] “Good job, Craig!”
K.W.: [Also does Australian accent] “Great!”
The Australians are back.
K.W.: We’re never gonna go away till the movie comes out. Two hours of us packing.
The lip-sync moment that stands out to me was when we were filming it, as it was a blast! Now, correct me if I’m mistaken, Craig, but don’t you recall my reaction being something like, “That’s it for tonight!” only for them to respond, “Actually, Bill, there’s another scene we need to shoot – one where you return home drunk after committing suicide and discuss the guy and MySpace.
C.J.: Oh yeah, you’re right.
After dancing, I was still quite warm and said something like “Uhhh, okay.” However, Craig did an incredible job. Surprisingly, the scene was quite extensive – possibly two pages or more. So, I stepped outside to read it and walk around, trying not to get too anxious. Then a Production Assistant approached me and said, “They’re ready.” I recall walking in, and it was incredibly quiet, with everyone present and Kristen there as well. The atmosphere was so respectful. As a director, Craig understood my needs perfectly and waited for me to compose myself before bringing me back and attempting to shift the energy in the room. For that, I will always be grateful.
After the release of the movie, you must have been anxious about how it would be received, but it turned out to be a massive hit and beloved by many. Did this unexpected success influence your career plans in any way?
I’m curious, both of you are such physical performers, and it is so unusual to have performers who can do that kind of physical work and then also do the work of being a writer where you sit in a room and think. How do you translate between those two things? Are they completely different muscles?
B.H.: I was not a good sketch writer.
K.W.: That is not true.
B.H.: I can’t write like John Mulaney or Simon Rich without someone to inspire me. You might recall that when Kristen Wiig would enter a room, I’d ask you questions about writing her characters, such as Target Lady and Penelope. When I attended the show, there was an SNL section in the NBC store, filled with merchandise based on her character creations.
K.W.: That’s not true.
C.J.: Now, Bill, I have seen a Stefon Christmas ornament.
B.H.: That was one character. Yeah, but you know what I mean?
K.W.: You write a lot more now.
B.H.: Yes, I write almost every day now. Working with someone like Barry made it a constant effort to get the story just right. And since we both come from an improv-sketch background with SNL, I found myself focusing on capturing emotions. The challenging part of writing is dealing with the daily struggle when things don’t seem to make sense.
What are your worst habits as writers?
K.W.: Not doing it.
B.H.: I’ve watched every episode of the show Snapped.
K.W.: That’s what you’re watching?
B.H.: I love women killing men. And it’s so regional!
Are you, by any chance, a Bravo enthusiast, Kristen?
K.W.: Indeed, I can identify as a Bravo person without any hesitation. However, with two children in tow, my viewing hours have significantly diminished.
B.H.: Indeed, not engaging in writing, as it requires effort. I often remind myself by sticking a Post-it note on my computer that says “Write from [specific time] to [specific time]”. There are instances when I simply sit there for days or weeks without writing anything down.
Also, don’t doubt yourself too much. Often, I get an idea that I think, “I need to jot this down,” and then I begin writing it, only to think, “This is awful!” But you have to persist, because there have been things I’ve written or done in the past that I initially thought were terrible. At the time, I couldn’t see the potential, or I felt like, “Perhaps this isn’t good enough.” or “Maybe my style isn’t suitable.” However, with time and effort, these same pieces often turned out to be worthwhile. So, keep going, even when you feel uncertain.
B.H.: You’re one of the funniest writers. Barb and Star? Come on. That got me through the pandemic.
K.W.: Thank you very much, but let’s talk about Barry! Is it weird to say I’m proud of you?
Of course! I’m really proud of you! By the way, do you remember how many photos I sent you of that “Palm Royale” landmark? I often send her snapshots like, “Check out your billboard on La Cienega Boulevard!
Sudeikis is now most known for Ted Lasso. Hader created and starred in HBO’s Barry; Wiig is now the lead of Apple TV+’s Palm Royale. Samberg’s Brooklyn Nine-Nine was a long-running sitcom for Fox, and later NBC.
Kristen Wiig’s Bridesmaids is released in 2009, the same year that she and Hader also appear in Adventureland. During this period Hader also appears in Superbad, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, Pineapple Express, and Tropic Thunder, among other films.
Wiig left SNL in 2012, while Hader stayed on the series for one additional season and left in 2013. Hader was filming the movie while still working on SNL: “I would shoot, and then I’d have to do the table read on Wednesday, and then go in for late Friday rehearsals.”
Berg, who worked as a producer on Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, and Silicon Valley, was brought in by HBO to help develop a series with Hader, and eventually became a co-creator and showrunner of Barry.
Mulaney and Rich both worked as Saturday Night Live writers during Hader’s tenure, Mulaney from 2008-2012, and Rich from 2007-2011.
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2024-11-26 21:55