‘Severance’ Bombshell: Ben Stiller Unpacks That Episode 4 Twist and Why It’s a ‘Gut Punch’

⚠️ CAUTION: This tale unveils spoilers from the fourth episode of Season 2 of “Severance,” currently available on Apple TV+.

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In the latest episode of “Severance,” the innies go outside.

In a sprawling, frosty wilderness, the characters Mark (Adam Scott), Helly (Britt Lower), Dylan (Zach Cherry) and Irving (John Turturro) are taken for an Outdoor Retreat Team Building Experience, authorized by Lumon and with their outies’ consent. Under the ominous guidance of Mr. Milchick (Tramell Tillman), they are tasked with a wilderness treasure hunt in the Dieter Eagan National Forest to unearth a hidden text penned by the founder of Lumon, Kier Eagan. This text hints at Kier having a twin brother who met an extraordinary, possibly foreshadowing demise.

Following an exhausting day of travel, tempers flare around the campfire. Irving confronts Helly to uncover her observations from the OTC, and he criticizes Mark for standing by her without question. In response, Helly retorts at Irv, labeling him as lonely due to the fact that — or at least his inner self — won’t have another chance to meet Burt (Christopher Walken) again. Once emotions reach a boiling point, the inners retreat to their individual tents, and Mark seeks out Helly. They share a kiss which leads to intimate moments, and during this encounter, Mark, who has recently started the reintegration process, catches a glimpse of Gemma flicker across Helly’s visage.

In the meantime, Irving wandered off alone during the night, eventually dozing off in the woods where he was haunted by disturbing dreams. The following morning, Helena approaches Woe’s Hollow, the location of Dieter’s tragic operatic death. There, Irving accosts her: “What you said to me last night – it was harsh. Helena wasn’t harsh.” He suddenly comprehends the truth. It turns out that Helena isn’t actually Helena; only an Eagan could possess such power to send their ‘outie’ to the disconnected floor. “She’s been an ‘outie’ all along!” Irv shouts, as he forces Helena – or rather, Helena’s body – under the water. However, just as he is about to take her life, Milchick speaks over the walkie talkie and commands, “Activate the Glasgow Lockdown now.

Helena reappears as Helly once more – this being the first time since the conclusion of Season 1 – and Milchick informs Irving that his services are no longer required, with immediate effect. A sly grin on his face, Irving is ordered to venture into the woods. He casts one final look at his colleagues before seeking mercy from “Kier.” Sadly, Irving’s inner circle has met its end.

Throughout the season, some viewers speculated that character Helly might be Helena. However, the dismissal of Irving was not foreseen. Ben Stiller, who directed the episode, shares, “I’m hoping this revelation brings joy to those who guessed correctly about it being Helena. They are validated, but then immediately struck by a shock – we’ve lost Irving.

In the discussion below, Brian Stiller, who is not only a key producer but also oversees “Severance,” provides an analysis of the recent groundbreaking episode and offers some tantalizing insights into potential future developments.

When did it become apparent that you wanted to do a totally bonkers episode like this, which feels like it takes place on another planet?

From the onset, our team considered an episode centered around a corporate retreat for Lumon in Season 2. We envisioned this retreat to showcase a unique side of Lumon. The idea originated early on and we anticipated it to be visually captivating. Our initial plan was to minimize dialogue and instead focus on the peculiarities of this world, as the inner subjects (innies) were to explore the outside world for an extended duration. We also wanted to portray a sense of fear, with Milchick suggesting that the world could be frightening. So, we brainstormed ways in which Lumon might induce fear among the innie employees. It was exciting to think about how far we could push the boundaries tonally.

Where did you film it?

We captured this particular episode in Upstate New York, primarily around Lake Minnewaska, Peterskill, and Sam’s Point near the Shawangunk Mountains. We spent a total of six weeks there, exclusively working on this specific installment. We were fortunate as we required snow, and we experienced some genuine snowfall on several occasions. Notably, the scene where they discover the deceased seal was filmed within just four hours of light snowfall in the morning, which proved to be very fortunate for us as we managed to film the entire scene during that timeframe.

You introduce a whole bunch of Eagan lore in this episode. Do you have a bible to keep track of the canon?

Everything we follow is based on what Dan Erickson has outlined, although we don’t have a manual or guidebook per se. Instead, Dan has documented everything for us.

How elastic is that lore?

Occasionally, the manner in which we narrate our story may stretch or adapt, but it’s important to note that we aren’t altering the lore in a way that feels like retrofitting. The underlying concept behind Kier’s religion, which remains unveiled thus far, serves as the foundation for these decisions. These concepts will be fully explored and developed as the story unfolds.

What should we be drawing from Lumon’s obsession with likeness? This episode introduces the concept that Kier Eagan had a twin. There are creepy 3D avatars that guide the innies, there are balloons adorned with Mark’s face…

The concept of twins is intriguingly explored in the series, particularly with the inner and outer selves. However, what stands out is the resemblance aspect, something I hadn’t given much thought to before. In this world, everything an innie possesses comes from Lumon. Therefore, having your likeness on a balloon serves as their form of celebration. The most profound way to be honored, if you ask me, is to have your own image replicated. They don’t have access to social media like TikTok or TV, so their visual exposure is limited to paintings and the occasional representation of themselves, such as in Kier. Reflecting on it for the first time, seeing yourself mirrored in Kier and being celebrated in that way becomes significant due to the scarcity of images they encounter underground.

Let’s talk about the Helly twist. Dropping subtle hints that she might actually be Helena, while also keeping her identity a mystery for four episodes, is quite the tightrope walk.

Experiencing the reactions from the viewers has been quite intriguing, especially observing those who jumped right into the debate about the character’s identity. I can’t tell how many people thought it was Helena or Helly, but there was certainly a lot of discussion surrounding it. Since we produced the show in our own creative space, we were unsure about the audience’s response. I must admit, I was taken aback by the level of engagement and the lively debate it sparked. As for the narrative and editing, we aimed to highlight those moments that, upon rewatching, become clearer. It’s alright if some viewers caught the twist during their initial viewing – it doesn’t always have to be a secret. What mattered was determining when our characters would realize the truth. If some audience members are ahead of them, well, that’s fine. Perhaps Irving is ahead of the audience, but Mark isn’t.

Mark knows Helly better than anyone. Why did he fail to notice it wasn’t her all along?

As a film critic deeply invested in the storyline, I found myself empathizing with the protagonist’s feelings for Helly, which undoubtedly influenced my perspective. Consequently, it wasn’t surprising when I failed to perceive certain aspects as objectively as I might have otherwise.

How did you direct Britt Lower to straddle that line of Helena pretending to be Helly?

In every scene, Britt found great intrigue in the spectacle. There’s a particular instance within the tent with Irving that sparked debate – when Irving queries, “What did you see?” Britt momentarily loses composure, and it’s as if her true character, Helena, reveals itself for a fleeting instant. Some viewers might argue this was definitively Helena, while others may view it differently. However, the captivating way Britt portrayed that moment made it an engaging, compelling scene for the character of Britt. As creators, we often rely on our instincts and take risks to shape the entire production. After all, the audience’s interpretation remains a mystery until they watch the show.

It didn’t hit me until later that we haven’t seen Helly this entire season. What does that mean for the show and for the other characters?

I must admit, Episode 4 left me utterly bewildered, as I found myself in the shoes of a character completely unaware of the events unfolding in the first four episodes. This presented an intriguing narrative puzzle for the writers: how to quickly bring me up to speed and portray the reactions of Mark, Dylan, and others after this revelation. The consequences of Helena’s betrayal are bound to linger, subtly influencing the characters’ feelings towards me – Helly. How will these lingering effects manifest in their interactions and relationships? A fascinating question indeed!

Speaking of storytelling challenges, it’s an extreme measure to terminate Irving’s innie. Were you nervous about essentially eliminating a character so early on?

In the storyline involving Helena, I’m aiming to create an unexpected twist for the viewers: they’ll find pleasure in discovering that Helly is actually Helena, only to be immediately shocked by the disappearance of Irving. His fate for uncovering the truth will resonate with the audience, and I hope it adds emotional depth. Additionally, I believe this revelation, since Irving was attempting to drown Helena Eagan, will serve as a satisfying surprise for those who guessed it was Helena. They’ll feel validated, but then they’ll experience a sudden jolt – Irving is no more.

What are we to imply happens to Irving, in a literal sense, when the episode cuts to black?

Milchick advises, “Enter the forest.” Likely, someone will arrive to fetch him, he’ll be transported elsewhere, and his superior will be told that he’s been dismissed. Consequently, he has no choice but to leave them. He is escorted out.

Why is it Helena who makes the masturbation joke? Is she trying to blend in as Helly, or is there a legitimate sense of anger toward her family?

Ah, that’s intriguing! I hadn’t consciously considered this perspective before. I assumed Helena was merely embodying a rebellious character named Helly. Yet, your interpretation about her harboring subconscious feelings towards her family is captivating. It’s fascinating how in this episode, Helena forms an intimate bond with Mark, and they become intimately involved. There’s a certain emotion stirring within her, I can sense it. This experience seems to have profoundly impacted her, much like it will affect everyone else when they comprehend that it was indeed Helena.

This episode explores the concept of body autonomy in a sexual context, which is fascinating. On a corporal level, it’s two people having sex. But what’s really happening is quite different, with layers of manipulation and invasiveness.

In our storytelling, we strive to explore distinctive locations that align with the plot yet resonate symbolically with our audience. The debate over who possesses authority over Helly’s body – the ‘innie’ or the ‘outie’ – is a complex issue that might be causing heated discussions in the corridors of power within the universe of our series.

Speaking of Congress, how do you view the broader political climate surrounding the severance procedure within the show’s universe? In Episode 2, we get a sense of the prejudice that some people have against severed people.

In Season 1, we subtly introduce the idea through a state senator, sparking a debate. We observe various perspectives as they discuss it on TV. It’s intriguing to witness different reactions to this topic in our world. In the series’ universe, Lumon is a profit-driven corporation, and it appears that the Severance process is one of their offerings. While not universally accepted, it seems to be gaining some support. However, in Season 1 we see The Whole Mind Collective, and in Season 2, it feels as though there are still those who view it with disdain, making it a somewhat contentious issue.

There’s an interesting and, I assume, intentional piece of mixed messaging in regards to the peoplehood of innies. In Season 1, Helena denies Helly’s resignation request by saying “I am a person. You are not.” But in her public apology video after the OTC, Helena ends by saying, “I am human. Just like my innie.” What is Lumon’s stance on whether innies are, in fact, people?

Her public narrative contrasts sharply with her private words, without a doubt. This raises an intriguing point when considering [current Lumon CEO and Helena’s father] Jamie Eagan’s perspective on his creation. There’s no denying the deceit that permeates this corporation. However, I believe the issue runs deeper, concerning Jamie and the Eagan family’s feelings towards the termination process. I prefer to keep my personal opinions to myself, as I don’t wish to impose them on others. In my view, there are justifications they use in their minds to justify their actions. The external PR image might suggest they treat their employees with humanity, but the reality is that they must somehow justify in their minds that the ‘innies’ are less than fully human. This notion echoes, albeit metaphorically, historical events and practices.

“Severance” takes place in a modern timeline — the characters have cell phones, for example. But all of the cars are from the 1970s and ‘80s. Does every aesthetic choice have a deeper meaning?

I’d prefer not to provide overly specific responses concerning certain details in the show, particularly about the cars. The series offers numerous design elements, and while fans may be eager to find clues everywhere, it’s important to note that not every aspect necessarily holds a secret. However, many of the aesthetic choices within the show do contribute to the overall narrative. We have indeed given thoughtful consideration to these details, but I must emphasize that it’s implausible for every minor detail to carry significance. I wouldn’t go so far as to claim we’re geniuses who’ve infused each item with meaning, like a doorknob for example. Instead, we’ve invested considerable time in crafting the show’s visual style. The reason behind its unique appearance is meaningful, and I hope viewers will appreciate this attention to detail when it comes together in the storyline. Ultimately, I can’t guarantee that every interpretation will satisfy everyone, but we’re doing our best!

This is more of a logistical question about promoting a TV show, but how do you keep everything a secret? You have large crews, you send screeners to a bunch of people, things leak all the time online. What types of protocols are in place to preserve the mystery? Or is that not something you’re too worried about?

We’ve explained the concept of the ‘severance process’ to our team, but I must admit, it gives me pause. With us holding onto episodes for nearly a year and a half after completion, the risk is substantial. The issue lies in the unpredictability of spoilers being shared by others. Our show’s charm primarily relies on the thrill of unexpected twists, which we can’t control. Therefore, we exercise extreme caution to ensure we don’t lose the hard work and dedication our team has put into this project over a considerable period. It speaks volumes about their commitment and understanding of the potential consequences of premature information release.

As a movie enthusiast, navigating the world of film production can be tricky at times. The cast and I often find ourselves in situations where we’re asked questions about our projects, but sometimes it’s challenging to know what information might be considered a spoiler. For instance, I’m responsible for approving publicity stills and unit photography, and I have to trust that the production team will keep sensitive material under wraps. I remember the picture we released from Episode 4 to Vanity Fair, showing the four of us outside, and thinking, “I wish we hadn’t done that.” However, on the other hand, we want as many people as possible to see our show, so we need to give potential viewers a taste of what they can expect. This is similar to comedy trailers – you don’t want to give away all the jokes but still entice people to watch the movie. If you reveal everything in advance, there’s no reason for them to come and see it. “Severance” has been an incredibly intricate project compared to anything I’ve worked on before, but so far, we’ve managed to keep things under control. I can only imagine feeling a sense of relief once Episode 10 is out.

At this point, what do you view as the show’s biggest overarching questions? Where are you trying to get to?

In my perspective, the focus often lies in the character development and heartfelt narratives. The character, Mark, possesses knowledge about Gemma’s alleged survival, both from within himself and from external sources. Will he succeed in locating her?

Where are we on Season 3? I know stuff is planned, story-wise, but are you blocking off dates for production?

Absolutely, we’re currently working on it. I expect we’ll have additional details to share about our progress shortly. For now, we’re in the midst of our project.

This interview has been edited and condensed.

2025-02-08 00:49